How can I depict a ghost in a small vignette, is it possible even? I am trying to build a figure that is obviously a human ghost, but not a horror movie type of ghost. I want to portray an ethereal figure that is a WW2 soldier who is stood at ease or attention on his military grave stone, with an old man knelt in front of the stone remembering long lost friends, I am struggling with how to portray something that is not solid. I am not trying to portray anything grizzly but give the impression of the human cost of war.

I have considered trying to use cotton wool that is brushed out and stiffened with a sugar water or the like, however I felt it wise to stop by here first to see if anyone has attempted this before or possible ways of achieving my goal. I want to take a crack at several ideas floating around in my head without having anything solid to work with. My intention is to make vignettes that makes the viewer sit back and think about the cost in life, innocence, and youth.

Anything you can come up with to aid me will be gladly taken on board, I will attempt to draw what I am considering or at least what is floating around in my head, and just wont let me be until I have found a way to portray this. If this is the wrong area please move it.

Hi Darren,

Depicting ghosts in dioramas is especially effective when pulled off properly.

I'm not sure how involved you wanted to get with this scene, but the best way to get the effect you want is to actually do a shadow box diorama. In this format, you can very convincingly produce a ghost effect using properly placed glass.

What you do is to place the solid ghost figure out of the viewers line of sight, but you have it reflecting in a sheet of glass which resides where you want the figure to show up.

You can see an example of this in Shep Paines wonderful book on dioramas:

How to Build Dioramas

If you are doing a free standing vignette/diorama, then it becomes quite difficult to achieve. The best suggestion I would have is to have the scene in full color, and then paint the ghost figure in shades of gray.

Good luck with your endeavour.

Cheers!

John

Darren,

I've had a similar idea for a while now as well...

What I had planned to do was to use "normal" figures standing over the mourner, but paint them in a mixture of pale grey tones while the living is painted normally.

HTH

Rudi

I really wanted to portray the ghost as soft/not solid if that makes sense, this bloody thought has been in my head for about 6 weeks now and is driving me mad slowly, so I have to do something to get it out and actually sleep a full 8 hours rather than waking up and writing down an idea so I don't forget it. Yes it really has got that bad. John Thank you I do have that book but don't remember that being there, thank you. Rudi does this mean we can go mad together. LOL

hey Darren,
this is a trick i devised 15 years ago though i don't have any example to show: take a normal fig and make a form in some silicon rubber, grease it well and basically *paint* the inside of it with some polyester resin. the idea would be that you get only *some* of the outlines of the guy..
the thing is, you would have to do the arms apart and then glue them to the rest of the body but nothing a good transparent glue (no CA) could manage.

Hi Darren,

that is a absolute uínteresting project. Sorry, but I have no real idea in doing something like this, but I´m absolutly curoious how you will mangae it.

So, keep us posted !!!

Keep well,
Markus

Darren i like the idea JBA has put forward sounds good and if you use Clear casting resin you will have a transparent figure or you culd tint the resin with food dye for different effects.Once you make a mould you can try several attempts to see what works.

This sounds like a great project and i would be glad to see how you get on with it.

Steve

This is simiar to the fire/smoke discussions.
If you move forward with it Darrin definitly take notes and do a feature.

Karl Logan pulled this off nicely n a dioram featured at FSM. Here's a link to it.

That's the one I remember,Al. Thought that was really well done. JBA's method is intriguing and could be even better results. Thanks for posting that.
Rick

Darren,
I think this is a fascinating idea, but I believe you asked two questions in your first post-- a) are small emotionally powerful vignettes possible? and b) ideas on doing a ghost.

On the first question, I would give a resounding yes. In fact, I tend to think that quite often small, well crafted vignettes that suggest a bigger story are much better than these big, epic dioramas of moving convoys or battles. I would suggest that the title plaque of the vignette can add alot to the vignette and be "part of it". A case a point would be a small, simple vignette I did with two SS guys seating by a new dug grave with the plaque reading "Burying Erich". I hoped that by giving the dead man a name I could invoke a sense of personal loss. So I think titles matter big time.

On doing a ghost--boy, what a great challenge but what a difficult one.

Shadowbox would be idea but difficult.

It sounds nuts but I'm thinking small mirrors reflecting the white figure. Shepard Paine did something like this in his book.

I like the transparent resin idea and if your handy with resin it might work nicely.

Another random thought I had was this-- paint the soldier is white washed colors, very faded greens and pale yellows then cover the figure with very thin cellophane (the type used to preserve food) and then paint that very lightly in silver to give it a slight transparent look.

Please keep us all posted.

I am reading up on the shadow box idea, however I don't know if it will give me the effect I am after from a viewers point of view rather than my view, I am always willing to try though. JBA has got me thinking about clear silicon, either carve a figure shape from a block as the figure is just to give the viewer the impression of a human ghost, and it would allow me to mould it within the tombstone to both impress upon the viewer what they are looking at and as a support structure for the figure. I will also give the mould making a crack as I will then be able to decide what looks best.

I did take a look at the link provided and accept that the artist was able to get across his vision via this method, I don't feel it will work for me as they appear to solid.

Tylusfaust you must have replied while I was considering my answer. I will admit I can come up with good ideas that I have no way to portray, and my concern was that this was just such an idea. My ideas at the moment seem to be all around portraying war for what it is a last resort I hope. The ghost was just one example of where I am going at the moment, another is something I am working on and it is taking me too damn long to complete because I am never happy.

It has no figures and no vehicles in it, but I feel it is poignant, it is just a small area of sand with a lone tank trap. In the sand is the slight impression of a human form face down with a small amount of blood mixing with a retreating wave, and a steel helmet and rifle just laying there. Of course titled Lest we forget, I am still not 100% happy with it at this time, and this one I have been playing with for 4 to 6 months already.

hello Darren,...
this should prove a wonderful project,..I have thought about this subject many times and I allways come back to the clear resin casting,..A wee thought in the sign game we often used perspex sheeting that often had to be jointed with chlorphlm (spelling?) to even out the surface and make it all nice and see through we would give it a very quick lick with a blow touche, just a thought from the old trade days,...I do hope you find your way with your idea....

...Phil.....

I too like JBA's idea.
I would imagine you start by sculpting the fig as per normal.
Then, make a silicon rubber mold.
Then cast in clear resin, but perhaps instead of a solid cast, you can cast a thin shell, possibly use some fiberglass and polyster resin? Then paint with smoky transparent glaze to bring out the the shape.

Would be interested in seeing you pull this off.

Darren,
Any progress on this topic? I'd be interested to know if indeed you'd tried any of the suggestions and how they worked out.
Cheers,
Charles

Sorry it has taken me so long.

Time to resurrect this thread. I have gone for the shadow box idea with a scratch built war grave. I will be using the figure from the MasterBox set MB3518 Panzergrenadiers 1939-42 (the soldier knelt down with his face in his hands) as I believe I can make this look like an old man in civilian dress at the grave with the minimum of scratch work. I will then have a sheet of glass or a cut out glass shaped figure with the details etched into it. So what do you think of this plan?

Darren,

Thought I'd share this dio by Vlad Demchenko for some inspiration: Shadows of Stalingrad

RR

Other than the shadows that are on view that first picture is really impressive.