| Subject: Advice please on artillery diorama. |
 | TimTam27 | Location: Victoria, Australia
Member Since: June 11, 2006
Posts: 150 entire network,
0 this site
|  |  |
|
|
| Posted: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 03:01 AM UTC |
|
Hi.
I am building the Dragon fH 18 15cm Howitzer kit and will pair it with the figure set that Dragon released to accompany the gun. However, I have reached the stage in construction where I need some advice on which of the accessories/tools should be still in their mounts on the carriage. For instance, would the pick and shovels be replaced in their mounts immediately after the gun's spades were dug in or could/would they be left where they had been used until it was time to go?
I notice in the box illustration that one of the spikes is left on the ground beside the gun, should I portray it like this?
The only thing I have been able to get from photos is that the shells were often placed on wicker mats but they are unclear on the other points.
I would be most grateful for any help.
Thanks,
TimTam27
|
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
 |
 | Soeren
Gorizont | Location: Sachsen, Germany
Member Since: November 28, 2007
Posts: 478 entire network,
39 this site
|  |  |
|
|
| Posted: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 03:09 AM UTC |
|
For this kit, perhaps "Rob; CALLSIGN: GALILEO1" could help you.
He built that gun.
greetings...
Soeren |
in progress:
- detailing my s.10cm K18 "snow dio"
- soviet Venera-9 + 10 +14 Venus-landers (1/48)
planned:
? 17cm Kanone 18 (DAK) | | |
|
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
| TimTam27 | Location: Victoria, Australia
Member Since: June 11, 2006
Posts: 150 entire network,
0 this site
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 11:23 PM UTC |
|
Hi Gorizont.
Thanks for the tip
Cheers,
TimTam27 |
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
 | Gino P. Quintiliani
HeavyArty | Location: Georgia, United States
Member Since: May 16, 2002
Posts: 7,955 entire network,
760 this site
|  |  |
|
|
| Posted: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 11:56 PM UTC |
|
I know nothing about the particular gun, but have a little bit of general artillery knowledge.
Usually, once the spades are dug in all tools are replaced. This is to make it easier to pack up and displace quickly if needed. The less stuff to pick up, the easier it is and less chance of leaving something behind.
It would be the same for the spikes or any other loose items. If you are done using them or no longer need them, they get packed up and put away. |
Field Artillery --- The KING of BATTLE!!!
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
Showcase
| | |
|
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
 | Mike Del Vecchio
redleg12 | Location: New Jersey, United States
Member Since: March 11, 2007
Posts: 218 entire network,
1 this site
| |  |
|
|
| Posted: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 - 11:18 AM UTC |
|
Like Gino stated, artillerymen are very organized. Live ammo would be neatly stacked or organized with at least one round ready to fire. Dunnage from fired rounds would be piled off to the side. Somewhere there would be a field telephone to give commands to the gun. Individual weapons would be stacked nearby but out of the way of the weapon. And let us not forget to put a lanyard on the gun (PSGGB) "Pull String Gun Go Boom"
Rounds Complete!! |
| The Moral High Ground..a Great Place to Emplace Artillery | | |
|
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
 | Rob
GALILEO1 | Location: Maryland, United States
Member Since: April 18, 2006
Posts: 963 entire network,
80 this site
| |  |
|
|
| Posted: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 - 03:32 PM UTC |
|
Hi Tim Tam27, I am actually STILL building this gun (waiting for some replacemet parts before I can continue). Regarding your question, I think that it all depended on whether the crew had enough time to replaced the tools as, on occasions, they may have had to get the gun in place and immediately start firing it. If there was some time between postioning the gun and actually using it, then, as Gino and Mike stated, I am certain that the crew would have taken the time to put everything back where it belonged to make it easy for them to pull out quickly if needed. I think that either way you depict this particual aspect should be fine. The only item that I've really seen being left consistently off the carriage (arms) while the gun was in combat mode is the large bar that was used to actually open and close (or position) the trail arms. These bars were inserted through the round steel ring that can be seen toward the very end of each arm. As the crew needed to position to the gun quickly (either to get it operational on in travel mode), this bar can be generally seen on the ground toward the rear end of each of the trail arms (as Dragon actually depicts it in its boxart of this kit). Leaving these particular items on the ground insured that, as mentioned, the crew would be able to move the heavy gun into position efficiently without having to take them down from their holders when speedy mobility was required. Anyway, sorry for the long post. Take a look at these pics and see if they can help you in deciding which way to go. It is worth noting though that when looking at these pics one can see that the tools (except for the bar mentioned above) are generally in their respective locations on the carriage when the crew seems to be resting and/or relaxing a bit. When in actual combat, as some of these pics show, some of the tools are not attached. *******Pictures For Discussion Only********       Hope this helps a bit! Rob |
On the bench:
1/35 Dragon s.F.H.18 Howitzer
Next Up:
- 1/35 Dragon 105mm Howitzer M2A1
- 1/48 Hasegawa F-14D Tomcat
Tomcats Forever!! Any Time Baby!!
| | |
|
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
| TimTam27 | Location: Victoria, Australia
Member Since: June 11, 2006
Posts: 150 entire network,
0 this site
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 02:30 AM UTC |
|
Thanks Gino, Mike and Rob.
So best artillery practice would be to have all the tools and accessories mounted back on the trails but the pics that Rob provided show that in wartime, things weren't always wasn't so neat.
At this point I will try and mount the tools on the carriage though I think I might put the spikes on the ground as it fits with the being ready to move fast doctrine. The evidence provided by Rob's pics does give me a little leeway though. I am using/struggling with the Voyager etched set which has some issues with sizing so if I have further problems with bits fitting I can leave the odd tool off and still be OK.
Just as an aside, if you have this kit I really don't think you need to get a photo-etch set for it. The Voyager set I am using would have you replace many parts but I think the plastic parts provided by Dragon are actually better than the P/E parts. Also, many of the P/E bits are either over or under size. If I had my time over again I would just build OOB.
Thanks again everybody for the help. Rob, the pictures were especially helpful.
Cheers,
TimTam27 |
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
| Rob
GALILEO1 | Location: Maryland, United States
Member Since: April 18, 2006
Posts: 963 entire network,
80 this site
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 02:57 AM UTC |
|
Quoted Text
I am using/struggling with the Voyager etched set which has some issues with sizing so if I have further problems with bits fitting I can leave the odd tool off and still be OK.
Just as an aside, if you have this kit I really don't think you need to get a photo-etch set for it. The Voyager set I am using would have you replace many parts but I think the plastic parts provided by Dragon are actually better than the P/E parts. Also, many of the P/E bits are either over or under size. If I had my time over again I would just build OOB.
WOW, Tim Tam27, these are exactly my feelings on this set as well!! I am also using the Voyager set for my gun but, as you've said, most of the parts are grossly over or undersized and NOT worth using. In fact, some of the tool holders are completely ficticious! To tell you that I was actually GLAD to have accidentally sat down and broken both of my trail arms that already had some PE parts attached to it is an understatement. I am now waiting for spares from Dragon and decided to finish this thing mostly OOB (with the exception of the boxes on the inner portions of the arms). It really is nice to hear from another modeler who's having a similar experience with this set. I thought I was the only one. I've got two more sFH18s on the stash and will use a Griffon set I got for one but the other one will be again OOB! Cheers! Rob |
On the bench:
1/35 Dragon s.F.H.18 Howitzer
Next Up:
- 1/35 Dragon 105mm Howitzer M2A1
- 1/48 Hasegawa F-14D Tomcat
Tomcats Forever!! Any Time Baby!!
| | |
|
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
| Mike Del Vecchio
redleg12 | Location: New Jersey, United States
Member Since: March 11, 2007
Posts: 218 entire network,
1 this site
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 11:28 AM UTC |
|
Tools on or off the carraige depends on what stage of the emplacement they are in. If it is eary and just emplace they could be off the carriage but usually not in the way of gun operation.
Nice pics showing different emplacements
Rounds Complete!! |
| The Moral High Ground..a Great Place to Emplace Artillery | | |
|
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
 | 27-1025 | Location: North Carolina, United States
Member Since: September 16, 2004
Posts: 5 entire network,
0 this site
| |  |
|
|
| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 12:41 PM UTC |
|
Agree with all the previous posts. If they’re disciplined and squared away (most Red Legs are) then any of the tools used for emplacement will be put away. The only things around the piece should be what’s needed to fire the mission. |
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
|
|
 | Dean
gremlinz | Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Member Since: February 07, 2009
Posts: 310 entire network,
0 this site
|  |  |
|
|
| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 12:49 PM UTC |
|
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
I am using/struggling with the Voyager etched set which has some issues with sizing so if I have further problems with bits fitting I can leave the odd tool off and still be OK.
Just as an aside, if you have this kit I really don't think you need to get a photo-etch set for it. The Voyager set I am using would have you replace many parts but I think the plastic parts provided by Dragon are actually better than the P/E parts. Also, many of the P/E bits are either over or under size. If I had my time over again I would just build OOB.
WOW, Tim Tam27, these are exactly my feelings on this set as well!! I am also using the Voyager set for my gun but, as you've said, most of the parts are grossly over or undersized and NOT worth using. In fact, some of the tool holders are completely ficticious! To tell you that I was actually GLAD to have accidentally sat down and broken both of my trail arms that already had some PE parts attached to it is an understatement. I am now waiting for spares from Dragon and decided to finish this thing mostly OOB (with the exception of the boxes on the inner portions of the arms). It really is nice to hear from another modeler who's having a similar experience with this set. I thought I was the only one.
I've got two more sFH18s on the stash and will use a Griffon set I got for one but the other one will be again OOB!
Cheers!
Rob
That was a timely piece of advice, I just got the Dragon kit last week and was about to order the Voyager PE set for it tomorrow so I think I'll take that advice on board and can it. |
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
| Rob
GALILEO1 | Location: Maryland, United States
Member Since: April 18, 2006
Posts: 963 entire network,
80 this site
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 01:44 PM UTC |
|
Quoted Text
That was a timely piece of advice, I just got the Dragon kit last week and was about to order the Voyager PE set for it tomorrow so I think I'll take that advice on board and can it.
Yep, indeed..Besides perhaps 4 or 5 small parts, this set isn't worth the effort. Rob |
On the bench:
1/35 Dragon s.F.H.18 Howitzer
Next Up:
- 1/35 Dragon 105mm Howitzer M2A1
- 1/48 Hasegawa F-14D Tomcat
Tomcats Forever!! Any Time Baby!!
| | |
|
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
| Dean
gremlinz | Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Member Since: February 07, 2009
Posts: 310 entire network,
0 this site
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 03:00 PM UTC |
|
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
That was a timely piece of advice, I just got the Dragon kit last week and was about to order the Voyager PE set for it tomorrow so I think I'll take that advice on board and can it.
Yep, indeed..Besides perhaps 4 or 5 small parts, this set isn't worth the effort.
Rob
Unfortunately due to my self-flagelating nature I just went to remove the Voyager set from my cart and look for something different to spend the money on and ended up ordering the Griffon Set with the barrel instead. When I get around to building it ( assuming it doesn't drive me up the wall as the Griffon 2cm ammo sets did ) I'll do a little build log on whether or not it's worth the money and the effort. |
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
| TimTam27 | Location: Victoria, Australia
Member Since: June 11, 2006
Posts: 150 entire network,
0 this site
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 04:17 AM UTC |
|
Quoted Text
WOW, Tim Tam27, these are exactly my feelings on this set as well!! I am also using the Voyager set for my gun but, as you've said, most of the parts are grossly over or undersized and NOT worth using. In fact, some of the tool holders are completely ficticious! To tell you that I was actually GLAD to have accidentally sat down and broken both of my trail arms that already had some PE parts attached to it is an understatement. I am now waiting for spares from Dragon and decided to finish this thing mostly OOB (with the exception of the boxes on the inner portions of the arms). It really is nice to hear from another modeler who's having a similar experience with this set. I thought I was the only one.
I've got two more sFH18s on the stash and will use a Griffon set I got for one but the other one will be again OOB!
Cheers!
Rob
Hi, I guess the marketing manager from Voyager wouldn't have enjoyed reading this thread all that much.  Perhaps he might have a whisper in the ear of the design department and get them to take a little more care and produce something that is more usable. Quoted Text
I am now waiting for spares from Dragon and decided to finish this thing mostly OOB (with the exception of the boxes on the inner portions of the arms).
Just a tip for you Rob, having just folded them up I have to warn you that the metal boxes on the inside of the trails aren't the same size as the plastic ones. I don't know which ones are correct but I am betting on Dragon. PE stuff looks so tempting but it seems more often than not it will end in tears. Tim Tam27 |
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
| Rob
GALILEO1 | Location: Maryland, United States
Member Since: April 18, 2006
Posts: 963 entire network,
80 this site
| | |
|
|
| Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 08:20 AM UTC |
|
Quoted Text
Just a tip for you Rob, having just folded them up I have to warn you that the metal boxes on the inside of the trails aren't the same size as the plastic ones. I don't know which ones are correct but I am betting on Dragon.
PE stuff looks so tempting but it seems more often than not it will end in tears.
Tim Tam27
Oh, man, that's not good (especially since I am planning to close the arms to allow the gun to be in the travel mode). Geez...I may have to now rethink this whole PE box thing. And your're right, PE stuff sure does look good but can indeed bring you to tears  Thanks for the heads up on this! Rob |
On the bench:
1/35 Dragon s.F.H.18 Howitzer
Next Up:
- 1/35 Dragon 105mm Howitzer M2A1
- 1/48 Hasegawa F-14D Tomcat
Tomcats Forever!! Any Time Baby!!
| | |
|
| HIDE SIGNATURE AREAS |
|
WHAT'S NEW
Forums (Armorama) 
LATEST POSTS 
